Well, that 1950 Ercoupe 415-G came back on the market. The full price buyer backed out because:
1. All documentation for the airplane (logs, 337's, etc.) prior to 1980 were lost and cannot be recovered, and
2. The buyer's airport is 6,000 feet high and he felt that he would have a problem on a hot summer's day.
This brings up the question of the airplane paperwork. It does have a new 0-200A engine as of 2002, but how critical is it to have all the paperwork from day one? Could there be a problem with the FAA or with getting insurance? Or is incomplete paperwork simply a no-no; better to move on?
Steve
P.S. The seller insists on full price and states that the incomplete paperwork is not a problem with a rebuilt airplane. This is now a dead deal for me.
All legal 337's will be on file with the FAA, you get them on the CD with the registration and other file paperwork, when you request the records CD for a specific airplane, thru the FAA website.
Depends on how the log books were reconstructed. Of course, there would have to be log entries for each and every AD, and the ones prior to the missing logs would have to be entered and signed off with method of compliance, etc.
Many times there will be a letter, signed and notarized by one or more persons attesting to the hours on the airframe and engine. Sometimes supporting documents are used such as 337's filed that give airframe total time, or shop work orders, or other verifiable documents.
Well, that 1950 Ercoupe 415-G came back on the market. The full price buyer backed out because:
1. All documentation for the airplane (logs, 337's, etc.) prior to 1980 were lost and cannot be recovered,
Sure would be better for all concerned if the seller would simply admit up front to problems like this. Everyone is happier and while you are dealing the the guy who later backs out due to the misrepresentation, three more potential buyers, who could care less about documents have been turned away due to it having been "sold".
but how critical is it to have all the paperwork from day one? The seller insists on full price and states that the incomplete paperwork is not a problem with a rebuilt airplane.
Charles is best equipped to address restarting the logs. My response to your PS is NO S&%T!! He's the seller, naturally he'd say that. Ed
Speaking of logbooks, I thought I'd show you guys what I set up on an excel spreadsheet for my airplane. (I know, too much free time). There are tabs at the bottom for airframe, engine, etc. I also interspersed changes in ownership. I omitted general entries, like lubed pulleys etc.
Of course, they aern't LEGAL logs, but sure would be a good starting point if the originals got lost.
While I was shopping for my present airplane I found one that was quite attractive, reasonably low time, TW conversion, new paint, poor radios and a very attractive price. Turned out that the airplane had been sold to Canada where the TW conversion was done and then much later imported back to the US. In the process the logs were lost and there was no history prior to the return to US registry. There was no way to reconstruct the Canadian records. Needless to say, I walked.
This brings up the question of the airplane paperwork. It does have a new 0-200A engine as of 2002, but how critical is it to have all the paperwork from day one? Could there be a problem with the FAA or with getting insurance? Or is incomplete paperwork simply a no-no; better to move on?
I think this falls into the realm of "controversial" with some of us! Each situation should be examined on it's own merit, but I agree 100% with Charles!
The only thing that is really important is that all of the legal requirements needed for current airworthiness (inspections, STC's, etc.) are documented. On the Ercoupe listed above, this has apparently been the case for the last 25 years! The early logs are not an airworthiness issue!
The FAA (CAB?) issued an Airworthiness Certificate for this aircraft on manufacture. All current legal requirements for continued airworthiness are documented. FAA concerns are satisfied and are not an issue.
The insurance companies could care less what happened 25 years ago (or earlier)! Insurance should be the same as any comparable Ercoupe, with or without logs from day 1!
Whether or not you require logs from day one depends on what you want personally and what you expect to pay. The lack of early logs could affect market value, but the actual condition of the aircraft and current logs is much more important. Even damage history is unimportant, if the damage was properly repaired and documented. Even if any damage history was lost with the logs, the aircraft was extensively inspected, and has been successfully operated for 25 years since!
Incomplete logbooks and unknown damage history lowers aircraft value primarily because of fear of the unknown! An aircraft that has lost its logs at some point will have to be very thouroughly inspected to reestablish it's airworthiness. The trick is to let somebody else pay for this before you buy the aircraft. (This was done 25 years ago on this Ercoupe!)
I don't personally think the logs should be much of an issue on this particular Ercoupe, but I caution you that for what the owner appears to be asking, there are Ercoupes out there in the same or similar shape (with complete logs) for similar (or less) money!
I agree with Carl, if you want full logs you get to pay for them. If you are willing to go with something less, and can determine that all legal requirements have been satisified, then there is nothing at all wrong with that, just don't pay more than its worth.
I have a 1959 model 150. I bought it in 1978, for $3800. At that time, a decent airworthy 150 was bringing about $6000. I knew I had a deal, and after inspecting the airplane, was willing to accept it as a decent airplane, a keeper if you will, even given the fact the original log was lost and the first I had started in 1966. I did make an effort to call previous owners and mechanics and couldn't find anyone who knew anything about when the logs disappeared, except that it was readily apparent that the first book disappeared well after the second book was in use. Quite possibly an unknowing owner tossed the first one, not realizing it was still valuable for its historical sake.
Don't turn up your nose at one with missing logs, just realize what it is worth and what you can resell it for later (with mine, they will have to pry the thing out of my cold dead hands), and be perpared to investigate it throughly to insure the records you have make up a complete legal record of the aircraft.
