Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Corona Air Sales: Buyer Beware

Never purchase an aircraft from Bob Cullen from Corona Air Sales. I was sucked into his vortex three months ago and unfortunately the experience was not pleasant. I overpaid for a Cessna 150L and currently, I'm spending more money then I had planed for things which should have already been included in working condition. He took advantage of my inexperience. I guess, you live and learn...

Ari,

Sorry to hear about this. How about some objective details?
I don't know Bob Cullen, but I prefer that we don't slander people without justification.

I wonder if he had an A&P perform a pre-buy inspection?

Paying a premium price for something only to have it fall far short of your expectations afterward is bitter pill to swallow. The importance of a top quality, objective pre-buy inspection has been addressed many times in this forum. Sorry to hear the airplane hasn't worked out well for you...it can be an expensive way to learn how true the old addage "Buyer beware" is when applied to an aircraft purchase.

I would caution everyone to avoid jumping to conclusions.
We have no objective data.

"premuium price" and "expectations" are very relative indeed.

It is also possible to do everything "by the book" and still get burned.

Yes, I had an A&P look do a pre-purchase. He found the airplane in sound condition. However, the problems I had were more electrical related. He was supposed to deliver the plane with the radios installed. However, it took him such a long time that I finally told him to deliver it as is and that I would take care of the installation. He credited $500, but unfortunately it cost me $2,500 to take care of the installation. It seems that there were things, which were not compatible and equipment that didn?t function. Currently, I?m dealing with a defective Mode C

I see this from an outsiders perspective, and is conjecture based on the few facts available!

A Buyer and Seller agree on what both consider a fair price for an aircraft, based on the Buyers pre-buy inspection and the Sellers appraisal of the aircrafts market value. Both agree there are electrical and/or radio discrepancies that need to be rectified before delivery, at the Sellers expense. Apparently no deadline was set as a "deal breaker", although I'm sure an estimated delivery date was discussed.

I'm assuming good faith of both parties, so the Seller quickly contracts for the repairs. Being electrical in nature and involving networking the aircrafts avionics, this becomes a time consuming process requiring partial disassembly, inspection, research, troubleshooting, communicating with various manufacturers, designing an installation, and probably ordering and waiting for components. Inevitably, plan "A" isn't 100% successful, so much of the above process is repeated to work out the bugs, initiating plan "B".

By now, the Buyer is rightfully upset at not having his aircraft, since all the earlier delivery estimates have long passed. A "discount" of $500 to the Buyer is agreed upon, and the aircraft is finally delivered, "as is" and as agreed, without completion of the installations.

Here's where the trouble really starts! The Seller has already spent a good amount of money with his Avionics Contractor for work already performed, although not completed, which now includes reassembly. Let's assume the Seller was told by the Contractor that another $500 would have finished the job to everyones' satisfaction, (which was probably true only if the original Contractor was allowed to finish the job)! The Seller and Buyer agree on the $500 price reduction based on the Contractors estimate!

The Buyer takes delivery of his aircraft, as is, complete with known discrepancies, and has his own Contractor start repairs. Most, if not all of the disassembly, research, troubleshooting, communicating with various manufacturers, designing an installation, and ordering and waiting for components (which was done by the original Contractor) is now duplicated by the Buyers Contractor. This results in what the Buyer percieves as having to pay for work that he was told has already been done, or as additional work he wasn't aware of. The work probably was done, but mostly involved the aquisition of knowledge required to successfully complete the installation, and is not tangible property that becomes a part of the aircraft sale. The knowledge belongs to the original Contractor. The Buyers Contractor must aquire his own knowledge base, and rightfully charges the Buyer for his time and expense. The Seller doesn't feel he has any further obligation, as he has already spent good money to correct the discrepancies, and lost an additional $500 on the sale. Besides, the Buyer accepted the aircraft "as is"!

So, the real question here is did the Seller know the Buyer would have additional cost beyond the $500 compromise? Did, or can, the Seller offer documentation of his expenses for work already performed, and an estimate of total cost to complete the installation? Was a $500 price reduction a fair compromise based on these estimates?

Everything up to this point is pure fiction on my part, and I invite discussion of my reasoning, but what I think I've learned is this:

Never stop work in progress to be completed elsewhere based solely on desire to get the job done. You will wind up paying double for something!

Never buy "as is" unless you're satisfied with "as is"!

--------------------

Ari, I have no law training, so take what I've suggested as the humble offerings of one who doesn't know when to keep quiet! I won't be popular with you for this, but it appears to me at this point that you created much of your situation by not allowing the work to be completed by the Seller. You probably should have waited until the job was done, or backed out of the sale! I do think you were due a discount for the unfinished repairs, regardless, and the Seller should have offered copies of invoices documenting work already performed and compensated. Penalties for delays, if agreed upon prior to the sale, would have given the Seller incentive to accomplish the repairs, and you compensation for the delay! I can't fault the Seller for not offering to "give" you a discount for late delivery, if you didn't ask for it as part of the sales agreement!

As far as your additional costs are concerned, the Seller shouldn't have to pay for two contractors doing the same work, any more than you feel you should. Without realizing it, you set yourself up to pay twice when you had the work stopped prior to completion!

If it's any consolation, it sounds as though you've bought yourself what will be a fine aircraft, once the bugs are worked out. You will soon recoup your investment in the hours of pleasurable flight you will enjoy in your new bird. Don't dwell on the extra money your decision not to wait may have cost you. With the economy improving, and the popularity of our aircraft, I wouldn't worry too much about losing money on the airplane. Keep it in good repair and it should appreciate nicely, I think! I appologize if you feel I've offended you in any way, and welcome your comments on where my suppositions were incorrect.

Carl

Carl,

I had no idea that you could spin straw into gold. :-)

Do you guys remember the movie "Toy Story"?
All of the toys had to get a "moving buddy" so that they wouldn't get lost.

We really need the same thing for first-time buyers.

I've seen it so many times-- buying an airplane is harder than it seems. It doesn't matter how smart you are, how much you read, or how much you plan. You can do everything right and still wind up in trouble.

A "buying buddy" might be able to help.

Looking at Ari's situation, most of us would have advised him to walk until the airplane was completed. That's really hard when you want the airplane so badly that you can taste it.

Steve, I think you've identified the single most costly mindset there is in the relm of major purchases: Wanting something so badly you ingore the red flags that would cause a more logical buyer to look elsewhere. If there's anyone out there who has not given in to this potentially self defeating behavior raise your hand....uh, no takers? Good, then we know everyone is being honest. When I bought N150DM nearly a decade ago I didn't do any of the things I should have. I got no pre-buy inspection, flew it only most briefly, judged the elderly owner to be trustworthy and thoroughly forthcoming. Luck of the draw, I got what has proven to be a wonderful airplane. I would NEVER roll the dice that way again. I'd been searching several months for a 150/150 and found them to be less than plentiful...at least ones close enough I could go inspect them. So I bought the first apparently nice one I ran across. Stupid risk to take. At least when looking at standard 150s, 172s, Cherokees, etc. a buyer has plenty to choose from, but it's still easy to lose your objectivity if you let your self disipline fade. Yeah, a first timer SHOULD have someone to assist in the objectivity department.

Dan, that's exactly what happened. It was my first time and Bob seemed to be an older man, who initially I thought was trustworthy. He claimed that he had been in the aircraft sales business for twenty-five years. I just put my guard down and took a gamble in trusting him. The fact is, the reason it was taking him almost two months to complete the installation was because his avionics guy was probably having difficulty installing equipment, which were not compatible to one another (such as the radio and the VOR/LOC not being compatible. Also adding to the list, the transponder's Mode C indicating way off altitudes and other panel issues. I've been dealing with stuff like this. I know that eventually it's going to be a great little aircraft. But boy, is it punching a hole in my pocket.

Thanks for your comments.

Ari Hovnanyan
6780G
Sherman Oaks, CA