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Hi. First time buyer, I need a little help. Looking at a 1978 152, 4600h airframe, zero time engine, fresh annual and its local to my airfield. Those are the good points. Inside is bad- original radio, plastic is cracked/faded (including the lower switch panel with the throttle, key start, primer etc). Carpet is terrible. Seats are very worn. Paint on the outside is (I hope) salvageable (with some extensive TLC) Most of the outside plastic has at least one crack with stop holes, tips, fairings. Has some dings and hangar rash on the wing tips. The guy wants $30K. I think thats WAY high, but he touts the zero timed engine and the low airframe hours. Any advice?

You're right, that is too high if the interior and exterior are not in good shape. A zero time engine is a plus, but it will cost several thousand to get the interior in shape, not to mention the exterior!

Hello Martin. Welcome to the club and to this forum.

For 30 thousand dollars, tell him to pack sand. You can completely discount the fresh annual. No doubt, there's a vested interest in getting it done as cheaply as possible.

Zero time engine? I find that hard to believe, given the condition of the rest of the plane. Make sure of the type of overhaul. Only the factory can rebuild an engine and re-certify it as "zero time". Definitely ask, if you feel like even talking to this guy, who did the overhaul. If it's anyone other than the factory, his claims of a "zero time" engine puts him in the liar (or at best, uninformed) category.

Low 20's would be a better starting point with all the other discrepancies you noted. There are many nice planes out there. My honest opinion is...mind you it's just my opinion, the new engine is only lipstick on a hog...

If all the things you listed were in perfect condition, including the one factory radio, you might get close to 30,000. But, with needing all that work, and who know's what else is lying underneath, you're setting yourself up for heartbreak, my friend.

Whether or not you're seriously interested in this plane, I must wholeheartedly recommend that you have a prepurchase inspection (to the scope of an annual inspection) done on the plane before you buy it by a DISINTERESTED mechanic, preferrable not on the field. Could be the best money you ever spent.

Welcome to the club, and congratulations, Martin. There is an inordinate number of club members that do not participate in this forum. It's my opinion (I have lots) that this is the single most valuable benefit of the club, access to all the knowledgeable people, and even the opinionated ones, too.

A good field-overhaul costs around $10K; a factory-authorized overhaul costs around $15K. Once you've found out what kind of overhaul it had, knock that price from the total price and you have the value of the airframe. An airframe like you described is worth around $10K to $12K. Like Gary said, low-20's is what that plane is worth.

If you post your location, perhaps a club member nearby can give you a second opinion.

Hi,
There are several books available on buying a plane that you can read, including one's specific to Cessna 150/152's, one which is available here on the forum written by Mike Arman http://cessna150-152.com/Merchant2/...=C1CS&Product_Code=bma1&Category_Code=bk
4600 TT may NOT be "low time" if the plane had the crap beat out of it at a flight school, which MAY be the case here considering the condition you describe of the cosmetics and interior.Also, I would be wary of a "zero time" engine, as opposed to one that had 200-300 time since major- that way you know the engine rebuild was probably OK. And speaking of the overhaul, who did it? An engine shop? a factory reman? or did some "A&P" rebuild it out of the trunk of his car? $30K for a 152? yeah, if it was a cream puff with good radios, clean interior, good paint and low time engine. What you describe could probably be had for around $20K, maybe less if it's a real dog. I'd sure hate to see you buy a plane in poor condition when there are many, many other planes available for sale that are probably a better investment.
-Brian

I too agree with Gary and Hung. High teens, low 20's tops!

Welcome to the club! There are many friendly, knowledgable people here and you are certainly way ahead of the game by joining and asking questions before buying. I have to agree with the other replies, $30k is too much money for a plane in that condition. For that kind of money you could be looking at planes with the 150 hp conversion. Just to give you an example. I was/am thinking about selling. My plane has good paint and a very nice interior, new windshield, etc, along with a KX-155 instead of the factory radio. It has a higher time, but strong running engine and I was planning to take about $17k for it. Airframe total time doesn't mean much if it's been maintained properly. In fact, sitting (especially outside) for a length of time is detrimental to the airframe. For $30k you could buy something like that, stick a new Garmin 296 in the panel, fly the heck out of it, and have the $ in the bank when/if you actually do need an overhaul. No this isn't a sales pitch, she's not for sale yet. I remember how frustrating it was shopping for a 150/152. The ads read nice paint & interior and it almost looks as if it's been vandalized when you drive all the way out to see it. Unless I'm mistaken, a paint job and interior will cost almost as much as an overhaul. As stated above, a pre-purchase inspection by a dis-interested A&P is almost mandatory after it passes your own personal inspection. Have someone who knows what to look for go over the logs too. Good luck!

Martin,

Welcome to the club. And you are asking some good questions. First, take a look at my avitar. The blue colored honey (not the one in the hat) is Dimples. She has good paint, good interior plastics, total time on airframe of 3200 hours, and a mid time engine. Price, about $20k.

A new engine is nice, but as others have pointed out, it is better to have a few hundred hours on it. Zero time since overhaul, and a fresh annual???? Didn't the owner take it up for a test flight after the annual and the overhaul???

I took the liberty of running the plane through an aircraft valuation utility (vRef). It threw a value of $35k back at me, but it was looking at a fresh overhaul and a lower than projected airframe time. Be warned, vRef over values aircraft. This package did not allow me to mark it down for poor condition plastics, paint, interior and instruments. The seller may be looking at this stuff and thinking he can get enough to pay off his overhaul debt.

My advice is the same as the others. Check with the mechanic who worked on it. Check into the overhaul. If you still want it, get a pre-purchase inspection done, it is money well spent.

Just so you know, Dimples was the fifth plane I looked at before I bought her. Hopefully, some of the guys who have had project planes will chip in and tell you their experiences.

By the way, if it costs more than you are willing to pay for it, regardless of its condition, then you should consider looking elsewhere. But, that is up to you.
I hope this helps.

Martin,

I'm going to chime in with Patrick here and add something. I've purchased two airplanes and now have a rule that I will always use: go ahead and add even several thousand more dollars to the purchase price of the airplane when you figure your costs (and this is for things you don't see yet!). Guaranteed you'll find that you have different standards than the last owner and your mechanic will find issues that the last mechanic missed. I believe even honest mechanics can overlook problems on an airplane he's used to. It's just the way it goes.

I also passed up several airplanes along the way but managed to find two great ones. You'll find a good one and you joined the right group to help, that's for sure! These 150-152 Club guys are terrific.

Catherine

Martin,

This is copied from the Yahoo forum. Sounds like it could be a pretty sweet lil plane:

My husband restored this plane to a thing of beauty and passed away
before he could get it sold. If you are at all interested in buying a
150, you will love this one. 1969 150K . N5757G. 3336 TT, 367 SMOH. Annual 11/05.
Continental 0200 engine. New paint, headliner, glass, carpet,
fiberglass wingtips. Communication radio. No transponder. Was
appraised at $25,000. Will sell for $23,000. Call Kathleen Balster
cell605-354-3292.