Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Purchasing Nightmares

I am almost 9 months into my first plane purchase. Since about a month after we bought it, (me and a partner) we have been chasing gremlins.

First it was an engine stumble on take off. We drained and cleaned the tanks thoroughly. That still didn't completely fix the problem. In the meantime, the WX turned colder and the digits on the NAV/COM wouldn't display when cold. First trip to the Avionics shop = $$$

Next, and still working on engine stumbling issues, which had migrated from at takeoff to 10 mins into flight, we replaced/rebuilt the carburetor. Cool thousand for that.

Latest find? Oooh, it keeps getting better, let me tell ya. Loose nut on a thru-bolt on the #4 jug. Mechanic torqued it yesterday and guess what? Won't torque.

Anyone care to guess what that means? How about splitting the case and helicoiling everything? Hurray! (my sarcasm must be dripping by now). Bad mechanic (on field) estimate: $7,500. Good mechanic, 50 miles away: $3,300. Plane will be down a month.

If this doesn't fix it, we're selling the S.O.B. and trying again. (I hope). We know there are things in annual coming, but this first year has been nothing but worry and money with just a dash of flying fun.

Take heart Greg...you have two things going for you that I don't. A 150 (usually cheaper and easier to fix than most airplanes) and a partner.

My Cardinal has started ring the cash register and it is neither. It has forced me to be very careful who touches her. Door hinge cracked $480 part/$450 labor. Cracked Cowl mount brackets $1000 for the parts...???? for labor. Transponder dies, then while replacing other avionics issues so we are at about $2000 there. Annual in another 3 months terror. But it sure is fun owning your own...heh..heh.

Greg,

If you sell your airplane now, chances are that you may have addressed the major squawks for the benefit of the purchaser. By purchasing a new aircraft you maybe placing yourself in the same position as with your current aircraft.

Depending upon the age of your airplane, the type of engine and the time on the engine, it maybe possible to justify the cost of majoring the engine instead of just repairing the pulled stud. If the engine is an O-200, and since you already have the case split for the stud repair, new Millennium cylinders will restore the 28 degree timing and you will have a fresh engine to boot.

Do not forget to factor in the cost of the sales or vehicle transfer or title taxes in your state. For example, in the sales tax in Michigan is 6%. If your airplane is worth $20,000, than the $1,200 that you would have paid in sales taxes for a comparable C-150/2 could be applied to the major.

I can sympathize with you. Was in a 1968 Cardinal club in the late 70's with the 180hp & constant speed prop conversion requiring the use of a lot of non-standard parts which had to be fabricated. It cost us about $900 (in 1970$)to have a spinner specially made. I vowed after that experience to stay with plentiful production aircraft. The bone yards are still full of runout 150's

Gerry 150G
Dowagiac, Mi

Greg,

I think all aircraft owners who lack the resources of the Trumps and Travoltas have had or will have your experience! The apparent transformation of our aircraft into a source of income for anyone besides ourselves is always a bitter pill to swallow.

You did make a comment, however, that I think needs further discussion: "Bad mechanic (on field) estimate: $7,500. Good mechanic, 50 miles away: $3,300. This is an area that can transform your wallet into a sieve. I'm sure you weren't literally judging mechanics by their pricing structure, but it is a major factor, and can distort what we see as prudent and justified! I offer this observation for others needing to make choices. Cheap labor can cost you in the long run!

I work in a shop with over 30 "Journeymen" mechanics, doing complete overhaul on engines for military aircraft. I've been doing this for 35 years, in one form or another, civilian and military, and have seen maybe 500 "mechanics" come and go. Good "Technicians" (as the FAA now rightfully and more accurately describes us), are fewer in number!

For an outsider, it is difficult to judge who among them were "good" Technicians, and who was not! Some of these people were so intelligent, intuitive, meticulous and thorough in their work they probably missed their calling as Brain Surgeons. Others I have observed I wouldn't let work on my lawn mower, and would have made excellent garbage collectors! They all had the same Shop Certifications, and they all got paid the same!

I consider myself a pretty good judge of mechanics/technicians, and there are some things that stand out about the good ones and the bad ones. It will be difficult to see some of these things without working side-by-side with the individual in question. You can get some idea by looking at the history and working conditions.

History: Word of mouth is a powerful research tool, as we've all seen on this forum. Where do others with your financial and maintenance situation go with their aircraft problems? Does the shop have a Technician with a long standing reputation of good service on your particular make and model of aircraft and engine? OK! Common sense, you've done all that, and it's a short list!

I recommend talking to several mechanics about their Inspector (A&P/IA). Look for statements like, ".... He's thorough, but fair!", or even "..Mine expects too much from me, It's hard to satisfy him!". When the same name pops up a few times (out of several), turn the tables! Find that AI, discuss my suggestions below with him, and ask who HE recommends as a quality, fair priced, Technician!

Preparation: I've noticed all of the better Techs spend time getting prepared to tackle the task! They make sure the work area is clean before they start, including the aircraft, engine, the floor, and the benches. There are no dirty shop towels, debris from the previous job on the floor, or yesterdays lunch bags and coffee cups on the bench. Everything gets wiped down before starting, and an effort is made to keep it that way. It's cleaner than my living room!

The reference material is complete, up to date, organized, and readily available (Dog-eared is good! The material is referenced often). There are no disheveled stacks of books, papers, old parts, boxes, etc., covering a bench or scattered around the shop. I could find my computer, if this was my desk!

Tool Control is practiced. Special tooling and personal toolboxes are inventoried at the start of the day, and again at the end of the day. If he switches jobs, another inventory. Tools are of good quality and are "Shadow Boxed" for easy detection as missing. Broken tools are replaced, and all pieces of broken tools accounted for. There is no chance of a tool or debris being left undetected in the aircraft or engine. Everything has a place, and everything is in it's place. Kids, do try this at home!

Performing Maintenance: The task is researched before starting. Logbooks are reviewed. Why is the aircraft or engine in the shop? Is this a repeat discrepancy? How often does it occur? What corrective action was taken in the past? What else doesn't work, etc.? How much time is on aircraft, engine, or component, and what are the recommended replacement intervals? You've got to know where you are, to know how to get where you're going!

While performing the task, the Technician, the components, and the work area is as clean as practical. Dirty, grimy, gritty hands can contaminate close tolerance components, and are washed as needed. Dirty shop towels can do the same, and are disposed of properly.

Tools and other materials aren't allowed to accumulate in the immediate work area, and are kept clean while in use. Tools not in use are placed back in the box. Consumables (gaskets, crush washers, cotter pins, O-rings, safety wire, etc.) are discarded properly and replaced.

Components are inspected before installation. Were they properly packaged and protected from the environment? Have they exceeded their shelf life? Is documentation complete? Are all part numbers correct for this application, and do serial numbers match the documents? Is the component complete and ready for installation?

Manufacturers recommendations are followed for installation of components, including correct lubrication of gaskets, O-rings, and threaded fasteners. The applicable publications are open and referenced constantly (although the Tech can do the job from memory, he verifies his knowledge with the book). Precision Measuring Equipment is checked for current calibration dates, applicable tolerances and clearances are measured and set, and correct torque values are used. Safety devices such as safety wire and cotter pins are installed in accordance with applicable publications and inspected for correctness of installation. Debris is discarded immediately.

Hardware is replaced and discarded as needed, such as worn nuts, bolts, screws, washers, brackets, etc. Reusable hardware is cleaned and lubricated before installation.

Inspection: The better Technicians are inevitably proud of their work! They have done the best job they are capable of doing, didn't cut corners, and didn't compromise! They enjoy inspecting their own work and tweaking minor defects they may have overlooked. They call others over to inspect their work ".... to make sure I didn't miss something!" Quality Assurance personnel (and AI's) rarely find even minor discrepancies.

Documentation is reviewed for correctness and completeness. Logbook entries are complete and accurate. They want the next Technician to know exactly what they did.

Testing: The completed product must be operationally tested! In the case of my shop, this means sending the engine to the Test Cell, where I worked for several years. It was often possible to predict the performance of the engine (pass or fail)! After a little experience, you could actually tell who assembled the engine, by simply doing a cosmetic inspection of the engines external components. You didn't have to check the paperwork to see who the Tech was. Their work was their signature! Shoddy attention to external detail usually indicated inattention to internal clearances and tolerances, resulting in nervous Test Cell operators, and usually a failed test. A "good looking" engine usually had no problem meeting required performance parameters. By the way, the Test Cell was computerized, so pre-conceptions didn't affect recorded performance!

Observation: The better Technician is usually professional in attitude, appearance, and performance of their duties. Quality is "Job One"! They want the job done right the first time, as quickly and efficiently as possible.
I like a "Military" man (Don't get me wrong here, OK?)! It's just that the discipline shows!

------------------

I have gone into "overkill" on purpose here, you having gotten my point long ago! You do pay more for quality, and that's all you should pay for! You can get the same quality from a "Mom and Pop" operation as you might get from "We Cater to the Rich and Famous", but you don't have to pay for the overhead!

Seems like a lot of effort, doesn't it! I'm not totally the "Mr. Goodwrench" I've described above (who is?), but it's who I want to be. Your Tech should want to be him, Too!

Settle for less, and it may be "Pay me now, or pay me later!".

-------------------

I also agree with others that you have probably had the bulk of your discrepancies repaired, albeit at more than you cared to invest. It will be hard to recoup that investment without keeping the plane, and you should reap the benefits, not the next owner! Besides, It will be just as easy, even with your experience, to find yourself buying another problem!

Carl

Thanks to all who provided their opinions. I am happy to say that 91X came back home last night, after having the engine case split and replaced.

The mechanic who quoted us 1/2 the price of the "bad" guy seems to have been worth twice as much. He has a good reputation, and boy did he earn it with us! Extra things he did without us asking was to paint the oil cap bright yellow, paint other parts such as the cylinder baffles, and clean the engine up overall. The most important thing is he found a cracked backing spinner plate and two pitted cam followers (for little extra cost) that he repaired. And, to make it all worthwhile, the engine is running smoother than any other 150 I've ever flown! I hope that all of you are right, that we get a chance to meet in Clinton, and the bad times are behind us.

Warm wishes,

Greg Hopp
N4691X