Club Homepage Forums Classified Ads Buy & Sell - Everything But Airplanes Buying a plane on eBay

Larry
did you find I-NCAA ?
It seems to be a A150, US built, with an O-200A.
A 130 HP FRA150 is in Ireland (Planecheck)
The attached files are pages of the POH of G-BAEV,a FRA150L,
with CONTINENTAL MOTORS CORP O-240-A MCCAULEY 1A135/BRM7150
(from the CAA Webpage ((http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationmod...ark=G-BAEV&imgname=G-BAEV002&imgtype=jpg)

I hope you find what you are looking for.
All the best for 2009
Hans

Thank you very much Hans.

I did see ads for both planes and you are absolutely right, it was the plane in Ireland that was the 130 HP Reims model.

A little checking on the internet suggests that getting a plane on the N register should be possible. As you know there are quite a few N aircraft flying all over europe. The first of several big problem for me would be the cost of shipping the airplane back to the States when my time here in the UK comes to an end.

Have a ferry tank put in and I'll fly it for ya cheap (that is when I get my commercial)... I'll charge ya a T-bone steak.

Thanks for the offer Jeff but I'd have a hard time convincing myself that anyone should fly a 150 the "wrong" way across the Atlantic even with 30 additional horsepower. :-)

From everything I have read, importing a plane from another country is a daunting proposition. There were some recent posts dealing with importation from Canada, and even that looked like a challenge.

You may also be surprized with how much shipping would cost. It probably would require a special container. Otherwise, the salt air and spray which the plane would encounter on an open deck would probably ruin it.

And shipping would be quoted in Euros, too, making it even more expensive.

I looked into the possibility of buying a Checkoslovakian Finn (a small Olympic class sailboat)recently and it was going to end up costing well over $20,000 to do it. And there is always the possibility of the plane or boat sustaining major damage in transit, and sorting fault out if that happened could be a legal nightmere.

On balance, I think for a marginal increase in performance you would be risking a lot to buy the Reims plane.

I bought my plane recently sight unseen (except for pictures) from an ad in Controller.com.

Over all, I got a pretty good deal.

I would suggest a personal inspection, though, if feasible.

I ended up having to re-do the interior plastic, which the pictures didn't show.

In my case, the plane was located in a rural part of Washington State, and just getting there by commercial aircraft would have cost a small fortune.

Also, the plane was priced low enough so even if I had gone there for a personal inspection, I doubt that I could have negotiated a much lower price anyway.

Luckily, the engine (although high SMOH) turned out to be OK.

I corresponded with the former owner quite a bit prior to mailing my check for the plane, and was getting straight answers from him, and otherwise good vibes, which played a large part in my decision to buy it.

Attached to the next post are two pics. These are PRE-PURCHASE pics.

Pics, per the above. Selling price of the plane (even with a $1000 contribution to gas money for delivery to Central California from WA - about 800 miles one-way) was still under $20,000.

I have put about $3500 in up-grades into the plane so far. These were almost exclusively cosmetic - except for some oil and gas line hoses which my A & P thought needed to be done tout-de-suite.

I purchased mine from Texas. I found it on Controller.com, a bunch of pictures, lot's of info going back and forth, pre-purchase inspection done sight unseen,, "other then the pics that is". Paid a 15% retainer fee,, and then flew approx 2000 miles to go pick it up. The previous owner was a real good guy to deal with.

I've had absolutely no regrets and love this "new digital age".

[Linked Image]

Lionel,
Congratulations! What a wonderful looking bird!

Thanks Tom. Going back to 1985,, when I purchased my first plane a "Cessna 172", This purchase was a lot easier. Back then, you had to rely on postal service or drive around looking. This really limited a persons "search area". Now a days, with access to the internet, emails, digital media, ect, It makes it very easy to purchase an airplane from a long ways away.

It's fairly easy to find reputable A&E's to do a pre-purchase, and the best thing to do, although "worthless in value to importing an airplane" is to get an Export Certificate of Airworthiness inspection done. This ECA should be performed by someone that is current on doing them.

AOPA excerpt below outlines the exportation procedure, although long, could serve of value to someone looking to do something like this.


Exporting

What are the proper procedures for exporting aircraft from the United States? Export certificates of airworthiness, clearing customs, protecting yourself by using an escrow service, aircraft deregistration, and many other important considerations are discussed below.

Once your aircraft is successfully exported and deregistered, you are not responsible for registration or airworthiness compliance in the destination country. The laws governing aircraft registration vary greatly from country to country; therefore, registration and airworthiness compliance in foreign countries will not be discussed. For information on aircraft registration and airworthiness certification in a particular foreign country, contact that country's civil aviation authority (CAA), embassy to the United States, or International Council of Aircraft Owner and Pilot Associations (IAOPA) affiliate in that country.
Export Certificate of Airworthiness

Prior to export from the United States, an aircraft that has been type certificated in the United States (most production models) must have an export certificate of airworthiness (ECA). The ECA document will certify that the aircraft meets the airworthiness standards prescribed for certification. If the buyer is in a Bilateral Airworthiness Agreement (BAA) country, the ECA will streamline the airworthiness certification process there.

Type-certificated aircraft include manufactured aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate. For example, a Beechcraft, Cessna, Mooney, or Piper would be type certified; a homebuilt or any aircraft certified as "experimental" would not.

A Bilateral Airworthiness Agreement (BAA) has been established between the United States and 29 other countries to expedite airworthiness acceptance on imported and exported aircraft.

To obtain an ECA, contact an FAA-certified mechanic. We recommend finding a mechanic who has had experience in performing ECA inspections and processing the required paperwork through the FAA. Your aircraft must have an annual inspection within 30 days prior to the issuance of an ECA.

Your mechanic will contact either an FAA airworthiness inspector or a designated airworthiness representative (DAR), either of whom is authorized to issue an ECA if the aircraft successfully passes the inspection and other required paperwork is in order. Although DARs charge for their services, the process is usually much faster when using a DAR than working with an FAA airworthiness inspector.

The ECA will be issued without an expiration date. An ECA is not a substitute for an airworthiness certificate! If you are planning to fly the aircraft after the ECA is issued, do not surrender your airworthiness certificate.

The person buying your aircraft should ensure that the aircraft will qualify for airworthiness certification in his/her country. As a guideline, if the same type of aircraft has been previously registered in that country, chances are that your aircraft will also qualify.

Registration

Before another country will register an aircraft that has previously been registered in the United States, it must receive verification from the FAA that the aircraft has been deregistered. For example, before a U.S.-registered aircraft may be registered in Canada, the CAA of Canada will require proof of ownership (bill of sale) and a document from the FAA stating that the aircraft has been deregistered. The FAA will fax deregistration documents to another country upon request. AOPA Aircraft Title Services (800/711-0087) may assist you in deregistering your aircraft.

Deregistering Aircraft in the United States

To deregister your aircraft, send the following documents to the Aircraft Registration Branch:

1. Written request to deregister the aircraft. You must include the following information:
1. N number
2. Manufacturer
3. Model and serial number
4. Reason for deregistering aircraft (export)
5. Country of export (destination country).
Example:
Please cancel U.S. registration of N_______ , (manufacturer), (model), and (serial #).
Reason: export to (country).
Signature of owner/title.
2. Bill of sale or other evidence showing transfer of ownership, signed in ink.
3. Consent to export from lienholders or lien release form (if applicable). The FAA cannot deregister your aircraft with any mortgage liens outstanding unless authorization is received from the lienholder(s) to export the aircraft. "Nonconsensual" liens (liens that you have not specifically agreed to) such as mechanics and tax liens will not prevent the aircraft from being deregistered.

Prior to export, you should have a title search done to ensure that the aircraft has no liens outstanding that would delay the deregistration process.

If your aircraft has any current mortgage liens, submit a lien release form or an authorization statement for export signed by the lienholder(s). AOPA Aircraft Title Services (800/711-0087) may assist you in filing these forms.

Example of an authorization for export:
I/We consent to the export of N________, (manufacturer), (model), and (serial #).
Security holder's name, signature.
4. Original aircraft registration document, with the back side signed and completed.
5. Copy of export certificate of airworthiness (if applicable).

If sending the forms via regular mail, use the following address:

FAA Aircraft Registration Branch
ATTN: Export Examiner
P.O. Box 25504
Oklahoma City, OK 73125

If sending the forms through a priority mail delivery service, use this address:

FAA Aircraft Registration Branch
ATTN: Export Examiner
6425 S. Denning Street Room 118
Oklahoma City, OK 73169

Questions regarding deregistration may be directed to AOPA Aircraft Title Services (800/711-0087) or the FAA Registration Branch helpline: 405/954-3116 or 405/954-3131.

Note: The last registered owner (seller) is responsible for removing the N numbers from his/her exported aircraft when the aircraft is deregistered.
Pilot Certification, Requirements, and Limitations

There are many options available for transporting your aircraft from the United States. The decision to fly the aircraft yourself or have the aircraft delivered by the owner or ferry company will be based in part on specific pilot licensing requirements. A review of international pilot licensing requirements and limitations is provided below:

1. With a U.S. pilot certificate, you may fly a U.S.-registered aircraft internationally.
2. Holding only a U.S. pilot certificate, you may fly an aircraft of foreign registry in the United States only.
3. To fly an aircraft of foreign registry in a foreign country, you must have a pilot certificate issued by the same country in which the aircraft is registered, or obtain a validated foreign pilot certificate from that country. For example, to fly a Canadian-registered aircraft in Canada, you must obtain a Canadian pilot certificate or a validated foreign pilot certificate from the Canadian CAA.

If the buyer of your aircraft wishes to fly your aircraft under U.S. registration for the purposes of transporting the aircraft to the destination country, he/she may opt to get a validated foreign pilot certificate. The foreign pilot certificate allows the pilot to fly aircraft in that country and, for the purposes of importing and exporting, to fly aircraft registered in that country through other countries. For example, if your buyer holds only a Canadian pilot license and wishes to fly your U.S.-registered aircraft from the United States to Canada, he/she could do so by obtaining a foreign pilot certificate from the United States.

A foreign pilot certificate is issued by most ICAO counties on the basis of a valid pilot certificate from another country. A validated foreign pilot certificate will give you rights and privileges equivalent to a U.S. private pilot certificate.

A foreign pilot certificate may be obtained by visiting an FAA flight standards district office (FSDO). The FSDO inspector will need to see a pilot certificate, medical certificate, and pilot logbooks. A foreign pilot certificate can usually be issued at that time. It is recommended that the FSDO be contacted in advance to verify any unique requirements and ensure that an inspector will be available.
Transporting the Aircraft From the United States

Once all the required paperwork and inspections are completed, you must determine the best method of transporting your aircraft from the United States. Questions regarding international flight planning and procedures may be answered by the AOPA Pilot Information Center (800/USA-AOPA). Additional information may be obtained by contacting the international AOPA office in that country, foreign civil aviation authorities, and U.S. embassies.

Method I — Deliver the Aircraft to the Buyer

One popular method of transporting the aircraft to the destination country is to fly the aircraft yourself (or find another appropriately licensed pilot). Once the aircraft has been delivered, the sales transaction can take place. You will deregister the aircraft with the FAA, and the new owner can start the process of registration and airworthiness compliance. This method is the least risky, because the aircraft is under your control until delivery.

Method II — The Buyer Flies the Aircraft to the Destination Under U.S. Registry

This method requires a great deal of trust on the part of both buyer and seller, but it does work. Quite simply, the buyer will obtain a validated foreign pilot certificate from the FAA and fly the aircraft (still under U.S. registry) to the destination country. This means that you still have ownership of the airplane while the buyer is flying it. You will want a deposit or some sort of collateral! In order to clear customs, a letter from you authorizing the buyer to fly the aircraft will be required. When the aircraft is in the destination country, the sales transaction can take place, you will deregister the aircraft, and the new owner can start the process of registration and airworthiness compliance.

Method III — Fly the Aircraft Under Foreign Registry

This method is the most difficult, time consuming, and may be impractical. The procedure is outlined below:

1. Conduct the sales transaction and deregister the aircraft with the FAA.
2. Register the aircraft with the foreign CAA and obtain an airworthiness certificate or temporary flight permits.
3. Remove the N number from the aircraft and affix the temporary foreign registration to the aircraft (12-inch letters). This can be accomplished with 2-inch-wide tape or stick-on letters.

Method IV — Employ the Services of an Import/Export Broker or Ferry Company

You may choose to use an import/export broker to accomplish the necessary paperwork and procedures. Your local port director customs office should be able to provide you with a list of brokers.

Method V — Disassemble the Aircraft, Containerize, and Transport

This may be the your only option if the aircraft is not in airworthy condition or the proper documents are not in order for flight.
Customs

There is little room for error when passing through customs! Because U.S. and foreign customs have the authority to levy large fines and penalties, customs procedures must be carefully followed. We will present some tips to help make clearing customs go smoothly.

U.S. Customs

Clearing U.S. customs is a major hurdle in getting the aircraft to your destination. Pilots are required to submit to a customs inspection prior to exporting an aircraft from the United States. Customs offices are located at specified airports of entry (AOE). AOE locations, phone numbers, and customs procedures are outlined in the U.S. Customs Guide for Private Flyers.

The goal of U.S. customs is to verify that no illegal items are being exported, all documents and paperwork are in order, and that taxes or duty are collected. Pilots must carefully follow all procedures and have all required documents. A fine of $5,000 per violation may be assessed for noncompliance; worse yet, Customs can and does seize airplanes for gross violations.

A Shipper's Export Declaration (Form 7525 V) must be filled out in triplicate, with one copy filed with U.S. Customs. The other two copies should be stamped by customs when clearing outbound and retained in the aircraft until delivery to the destination country, then kept in your permanent records. The Shipper's Export Declaration is a U.S. Census Bureau form and is used to track aircraft within the United States.

Note: If the aircraft is being shipped to Canada, with Canada being the final destination, the Shipper's Export Declaration form is not required.

In order to get through the customs process as quickly and painlessly as possible, consider the following guidelines:

1. Customs forms: Contact the U.S. Customs office at your intended AOE for an assessment of duty, taxes, and forms that will be required for your situation. Normally, aircraft manufactured and/or exported from the United States will not be subject to duty taxes. Forms are available on AOPA's Web site or from the U.S. Government Printing Office, 202/783-3238.
2. All aircraft documents must be in order:
1. Registration and airworthiness certificates matching the same country and showing the same registration number. You must have a permanent or telex registration certificate! No temporary registration certificates will be accepted. For example, if you are flying an aircraft registered in Canada, you must also present a Canadian airworthiness certificate and Canadian registration certificate.
2. If you are flying the aircraft under the owner's registration, you must have a letter from the owner authorizing you to fly that aircraft. This will dismiss any ideas in the inspector's mind that the aircraft is stolen.
3. If ferry tanks or other optional equipment are installed, you must have major repair or alteration forms (337) aboard.
4. Be prepared! Have your paperwork filled out in advance as much as possible. Ensure that required documents are on board and easily accessible. The inspector will be impressed if you are organized and considerate of their time. This will also speed your time through the customs process.
3. Required pilot documents including pilot certificate and medical certificate. Country of issue on pilot certificate must match country of aircraft registry. For example, if you are flying a U.S.-registered aircraft, you must also have a U.S. pilot certificate or validated U.S. foreign pilot certificate.

Foreign Customs

Aircraft being imported to another country may be subject to a customs inspection and duty taxes by the destination country. This cost should be entered into the equation. To determine these costs and verify import procedures, it is recommended that the customs agency at the airport of entry (AOE) be contacted in advance. Additional assistance can be obtained from an international AOPA (IAOPA) affiliate in that country, or from the embassy to the United States