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Yeh, Terry I agree with what you are saying...except for the flight instructor thing.

One of the drawbacks to teaching in the mindset that is required to pass and hold an instructor rating is you are handcuffed by the vision that the FAA has as to how to instruct, whereas if one does type rating training or training such as sea plane ratings the best teachers all things considered should be those who have tens of thousands of hours of the type of flying they are teaching.

I just quit one of the most interesting kinds of flying in aviation I operated a business that specialized in Warbird restoration and ferrying of these airplanes all over the world. I have several partners and we also do flying for the movie industry and for the past ten years or so I flew as an airdisplay pilot in the air show circuit all over Europe. It was the airshow flying that finally made me decide to quit because of all the B.S. that we had to go through just to hold our authorizations to fly in them.

However the movie business was great, we did some you may have seen such as "Band of Brothers"... " Tomorrow never dies" a James bond flick.... " Below " a Merimax film about a submarine in WW2 plus several more.

I'll try and link a picture of one of the band of Brothers DC3's that I flew.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ChuckEllsworth/P1010045.jpg

I needed a haircut in that picture.

Anyhow back to tailwheel flying, I have a very simple method of teaching tail wheel stuff and I use a camcorder as a teaching tool, during the debrief I use the video to show the student where they are having problems when they screw up things like landings..I just stop the video and ask them where they were looking at that moment in time and what they were thinking...I find that using the video cuts the learning time in about half as far as grasping the picture of what they should be seeing goes.

Unfortunately it doesen't work worth a damn in a Pitts because you can't see straight ahead in the thing anyhow.

By the way I did some flying for a lodge at Tickchick narrows in a PBY in 1982, we were based in Anchorage.

Here is an interesting take off that I did in Rotterdam last summer for Dutch TV.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ChuckEllsworth/RotterdamBridge.jpg

I hope you don't mind me posting this stuff in this forum as I am aware it should be about Cessnas but what the hell the pictures are of airplanes.

Chuck E.

Chuck,
Finding a decent taildragger instructor is very hard. I was supposed to get my endorsement this summer. No go because this idiot CFI I thought was OK couldn't keep an airworthy plane if his life depended on it. I haven't found another instructor within an hour of my home base. I'm still looking...

Besides the technical end of flying a taildragger, there is another equally important factor. Prohibitive insurance costs. Both flight schools and low time pilots face this issue. Paying $6000/year for a lowtime pilot is not unusual. This issue alone can be the deal breaker.

Wow... that Rotterdam pic is pretty cool!

Hey Chuck and Terry!

I'd like to chime in here if I may be so bold.

I now have a grand total of 100 hours in a tailwheel airplane, 6 in a 90hp super cub, and the rest in a 150/150 Texas Taildraggin, Bad to the bone, super-duper slow-flight-modded Cessna. I had to make it sound cool...

Two issues here...

1. Chuck's asking price for the airplane. If I was in the market (that's how all useless, unwanted bull starts) I'd love to have the tailwheel/aerobat configuration for exactly the reason the Chuck says he converted his. I'm (perhaps foolishly sometimes) devoted to the 150/152, just because they're nearly the most inexpensive to own, easiest to maintain, and arguably the most durable all metal planes out there. Not to mention the membership in the Cessna 150-152 Club is way cool, as well.

Wayne Westerman and I talk quite a lot and he is continually blessing me with his wisdom. One of the points he always makes is about buying a 150/150 or a 150 taildragger (if that's your cup of tea). You'll never get the money you put into it back out of it. However it's great to start with a known quality airframe. He was looking at some 150/150's with seemingly astronomical pricetags and shied away from them because of just that, they were danged expensive. So, he went an converted one for himself. Made a dandy of a 150/150, IFR, autopilot, long range tanks, super spiffy interior, slick paint job...to make a short story long, he has spent more on the Sport Hawk than he would have spent just buying one already made. That point is brought up here from time to time, but Wayne has actually lived the ordeal.

Yes, 40,000 dollars is a lot of money, but in my opinion, you'd be getting a lot of airplane. What's it worth? Depends on the guy with the cash, unfortunately.

2. Terry's argument for further tailwheel training vs. Chuck's "how has aviation dummed this far?" I was one of those who went around the patch 20 times in about 3 hours trying to work on three point landings until I got them. Then, voila...a tailwheel signoff. Was I a real tailwheel pilot? My logbook said I was. When I bought my 150/150 TD, I only had 6 hours in a Super Cub...a low powered Super Cub at that. I had a pretty steep learning curve to fight...but, having been properly endorsed, I set out to teach myself how to fly that thing.

I've been blessed with some fantastic advice from friends like Matthew Gray and Dan Meler who live and breathe tailwheel airplanes and piloting. I've always been one who could read something and then go out and do it. Matthew taught me how to wheel land from Australia. I like to think I'm at least an average pilot. There are people who, without more training, will bullheadedly proceed to destroy their planes and take the lives of those in/near the plane. The RV-6 that tried to land twice Saturday at Clinton nearly crashed several times on the first landing attempt, and at least twice more on the second pass before slamming it onto the ground. No doubt, that pilot thought he was a tailwheel pilot...who knows how many hours he had in a tailwheel airplane. I guarantee that any instructor or examiner who flew with that guy would have been reaching for the controls.

I can see Chuck's point, and I can see Terry's point. Unfortunately, if left to our own devices, we (as the general pilot population) would continue to bend up airplanes at an alarming rate. Like Terry's Alaskan statistics show, there's a disproportionate ratio of accidents for tailwheelers versus nose wheelers. Then, again, no-one tries to land a 210 on a gravel bar. Well, hopefully no-one

So, the FAA stepped in, most likely at the request of the NTSB and designed a little extra safety measure and required at least an instructor's signoff for the tailwheel endorsement. I don't like the Government meddling in my business, but one little ride isn't gonna hurt. The biggest qualifier is the competency and experience of the endorsing instructor.

After I bought my 150/150 TD, after I had about 20 hours in her, I went and found a TW instructor to give me some instruction. By that time, I already had the three point landings down in all flap settings, as well as the wheel landings with all flap settings and various airspeeds. The instructor's first landing attempt had us careening sideways, tires screaming in protest, and my feet helping on the rudder pedals. And this is with a guy who has over 1000 hours tailwheel, several thousand in army helicopters, and who is a retired American Airlines Captain. That was the one and only time I've been close to groundlooping anything.

Flying/buying a tailwheel 150 is a personal decision. I'd do it in a heartbeat. But, looking down the road, the ability to resell the plane if need be has to weigh in. I bought mine right. I could resell it without any problems. You don't make money when you sell a plane, you make it when you buy it. Doing the conversions yourself definitely hurts you in that regard. Chuck, I feel for ya. To buy it at a premium will, indeed, take the right buyer. They're out there, I'd sit on it if I could and wait for the right guy...or gal...Jessica Braddock comes to mind... Hi, Jess

I don't think we'll ever get away from the tailwheel endorsement. I think the statistics prove that it enhances safety. BTW, in Texas, if you take your Concealed Handgun License (CHL) test with a revolver, that's all you can carry. To carry a semi-automatic, you have to qualify with a semi-automatic pistol at least 9mm caliber and higher. If you don't, you'll get a restriction for revolver's only...How'd Texans ever get that dumb? Like the FAA, the Texas Government thinks they're saving us from ourselves.

Wow...this post got really long winded and I apologize. You two were friendly debating two of my favorite topics...Aerobats and Tailwheels. To heck with the FAA...

I know otherwise. Not just a good pilot, a damn fine pilot.


Hey, nobody told me not to!!

7500! 7500!!

Gary, nice post.

The tail wheel discussion is really quite simple, it is made to sound difficult.

I started flying in 1953 and all we had was tail wheel airplanes...we got our Private pilot license in 30 hours.

The accident rate was arguably less in those days because our instructors understood how to fly them.

Anyhow I have never found a student I couldn't teach tail wheel flying to, some took a few more hours than others, but it really is not rocket science.

I've been trying to think of some airplanes that were demanding to fly and can only think of three.

1...The Anson mark 5, because it had the British vaccum over hydraulic brakes that had a real lag in them.

2...the Grumman Turbo Goose because the PT6's were really powerful for that airplane and had awsome torque on take off.

3...The Pitts special also needs attention on landings and it also has no foward vision during touch down.

A lot of people think the Beech 18 is tricky but it really is quite easy to fly.

By the way my favourite job was flying the Stearmans crop dusting in the late fifties and early sixties...that was real flying.

Chuck E.

The guy who taught me tailwheel flying in his Super Cub also owns a Stearman and a Christen Eagle. He's promised me rides in both. I've yet to get down there and take him up on it...he's a whopping 40 miles away. He's even flown up here in the Stearman looking for me. I'll have to catch up.

I've really been ogling over the AcroSport II or the Starduster Too homebuilts. I know I could buy one cheaper than I could build one, but all of that welding and fabrication is drawing me near... From what I see, anyone who can put together your average microwave oven stand can build an RV... Then, again, I don't know how to weld... Never went to A&P School...

That's like saying Christie Brinkley is an average model. Gary, if your flying skill is average then you're ruining the grading curve for the rest of us!

You're making me blush.

Kirk (and everyone else) -

I've spent over 15 years as a professor at the College/University level. (scary thought, I know)

In every class I had, there was always someone - always that one person - [color:"red"] just that one!!! [/color] that busted the curve.

Average pilot, huh Gary? Yeah. Sure. Just like you're the average guitar player, average writer, average mechanic, average person, and average friend.

You set the "average" bar pretty high, Bro. Looks like average needs to be redefined.