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Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
FlyGirl #657059 09/24/23 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyGirl
The owner just had an annual performed in Aug by a mechanic in Heber Springs. I'm hoping for a A&P recommendation at a different location so I can get an objective 3rd party to perform the pre-buy.

That's a good decision. I bought my former 152 in 2001 when the local flight school went out of business and put it up for sale. I didn't know any better, so I asked the A&P who had been maintaining it to do the prebuy, but I asked him to do it as an annual inspection so at least the plane had to meet the Airworthiness standards. Fortunately, he's an upstanding A&P and I had rented the same plane for the previous 6 years, so everything worked out and I had a very good plane. Owned it until 2017 when I had to hang up my wings and sold it.

If you buy that plane, try to arrange to have a CFI come along and log your flight time as x-country hours. You will learn so much about navigation, ATC communication, weather, etc on that trip.


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Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
Rick Durden #657088 09/25/23 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Durden
Manu,

Your intent to have a prebuy exam is wise - especially as the airplane has what is called a "fresh annual." One of the sucker traps in aviation is for an owner who is trying to get rid of a junker to have it annualled by a mechanic who will sign it off although it is lousy shape. The owner then advertises it with a "fresh annual" and pilots who don't realize that the annual may have been nonsense pay more money than the airplane is worth and then pay much more money when they have their mechanic do a real annual.

Have a prebuy exam performed by a mechanic who has never had any contact with the airplane. If it goes well and you decide to buy the airplane, it's a good idea to have the mechanic turn that exam into a real annual inspection, so that you can be very confident in what you are buying.

My comments come from the perspective of retiring after 42 years as an aviation lawyer and representing buyers of airplanes that were sold to them with a "fresh annual" and/or "fresh engine overhaul" and the buyers trusted the seller and didn't have a prebuy exam performed. They got the airplane home from several states away and discovered that they were in terrible condition. They then figured out that to sue the seller, they'd have to do so in the seller's home state, which would be too expensive.

You are looking at buying one of the best airplanes ever built - you are making the right moves in assuring that the one you buy is in good condition.

Welcome to the best type club around. Hope you get the right 150 for you and have many years of joy and adventure flying it.


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All the way.


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Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
FlyGirl #657091 09/25/23 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyGirl
The plane I’m looking at has the standard 6 pack, and can only shoot non-precision approaches for IFR. I may eventually have to upgrade the avionics for IFR training, but I have time to ponder on avionics upgrades.. Looking forward to fun days ahead!

Cheers,
Manu
Manu, You will decide what is right for you.
As a low time private pilot: I rented a skyhawk. I hardly ever flew as a renter. I had to choose, stop flying or become an owner. Decided to own. My first plane was a J model. I had a prebuy. I bought the plane. Had it delivered. Found a bunch of things wrong with it. Had them fixed. Flew a lot. Decided to get instrument rated. Had avionics upgrades (expensive). Got an instrument rating. Sold it. Bought a better plane (my current L) with additional stuff (autopilot). Flew it home. Found stuff wrong. Had them fixed. Flew it a lot. Got a commercial license. Working on CFI. Still flying my L.

My only points: 1. you’re on a good path. 2. Owning is better than renting if you are flying a lot. If you’re not flying much, renting is better.

Geoff

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Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
FlyGirl #657092 09/25/23 05:01 AM
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Manu,

I was one of three owners of an IFR-equipped 150 that we bought because we had kids that were learning to fly age. It worked for the kids and for me. I flew it IFR pretty regularly, as once a week I had to commute from the west side of Michigan to the east side. It was a minimum two hour drive one way. When the weather cooperated, I flew (and I shot some instrument approaches to minimums). The 150 is a wonderful airplane and can do a great deal if you recognize that its speed means range limits and it was designed for Americans of the late 1950s who weighed a lot less than we do now. Make sure that the one you wish to buy has a useful load that is acceptable.

That 150 had a "six-pack" for instruments, but its avionics allowed shooting precision instrument approaches (ILS). A six-pack does not mean that it has limited IFR capability - six-pack just refers to the flight instrument presentation that became standard with all airplanes as of 1968. The ability to fly IFR depends on the avionics installed.

Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
FlyGirl #657102 09/25/23 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyGirl
The 150L I’m eyeing is at 2A2 currently (Holley Mountain Airpark).


2A2 is 93 miles from my airport and I'd be glad to fly down there for a walk around and have a look-see at the old gal if you want me to?

Again, I'm not a mechanic but a visual once over can determine if the plane is worth pursuing or not.

I can't get there until Thursday, Friday or Saturday and then I'm flying to Michigan the following week for several days.

Ron Twente has given you great advice about the maintenance facility in CT. They are club members and they know these 150's and 152's inside and out....plus they're good, honest folks. They also have restored a 152 and it's one of the top 152's on the planet.....it's stunning.


Cessna 150/150, N2259M - Mighty Mouse
Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
Rick Durden #657118 09/26/23 02:06 AM
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Thanks much Rick, appreciate the legal perspective... Regardless of when the Annual was done, I’m much more comfortable with a pre-buy, so will go that route… thanks for confirming my decision.

Cheers!

Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
Geoff Vincent #657119 09/26/23 02:25 AM
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Hi Geoff, one of the reasons I’m buying a plane is to ensure I have unlimited access to get my certificates at my convenience… I plan to progress to an IFR eventually, so owning a plane would be a good way to keep progressing without scheduling or other conflicts. I may not fly a lot, but I sure would like to - Life tends to get in the way of fun many times, but I’m optimistic for now!

Thanks for the continued encouragement... Cheers!

Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
Rick Durden #657120 09/26/23 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Durden
Manu,

I was one of three owners of an IFR-equipped 150 that we bought because we had kids that were learning to fly age. It worked for the kids and for me. I flew it IFR pretty regularly, as once a week I had to commute from the west side of Michigan to the east side. It was a minimum two hour drive one way. When the weather cooperated, I flew (and I shot some instrument approaches to minimums). The 150 is a wonderful airplane and can do a great deal if you recognize that its speed means range limits and it was designed for Americans of the late 1950s who weighed a lot less than we do now. Make sure that the one you wish to buy has a useful load that is acceptable.

That 150 had a "six-pack" for instruments, but its avionics allowed shooting precision instrument approaches (ILS). A six-pack does not mean that it has limited IFR capability - six-pack just refers to the flight instrument presentation that became standard with all airplanes as of 1968. The ability to fly IFR depends on the avionics installed.

Thanks for the heads up on the useful load, Rick - I'll confirm. For now, my main mission is to get my PPL. Then will putz around a bit, and move to get my IFR - I think the 150 is suited for that and so much more! It's been great to read that club members love to fly their planes - I expect to enjoy my purchase for a good long while..

The plane can only shoot VOR/ localizer approaches, not precision ILS approaches. I plan to upgrade later when I'm ready.. Will be a fun (though expensive!) journey.

Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
Jim Hillabrand #657121 09/26/23 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Hillabrand
Originally Posted by FlyGirl
The 150L I’m eyeing is at 2A2 currently (Holley Mountain Airpark).


2A2 is 93 miles from my airport and I'd be glad to fly down there for a walk around and have a look-see at the old gal if you want me to?

Again, I'm not a mechanic but a visual once over can determine if the plane is worth pursuing or not.

I can't get there until Thursday, Friday or Saturday and then I'm flying to Michigan the following week for several days.

Ron Twente has given you great advice about the maintenance facility in CT. They are club members and they know these 150's and 152's inside and out....plus they're good, honest folks. They also have restored a 152 and it's one of the top 152's on the planet.....it's stunning.

Rick, you've just confirmed that this is definitely the best type club on planet Earth - thank you very much for the offer to fly over and check out the plane!! That is very generous of you!

Unfortunately, the plane is not easily accessible - it's hangered and the owner is in Colorado now, so you will not be able to get a visual even if you fly out there. However, the owner is a friend of a friend. So, my friend (who is a pilot) did take some pictures for me earlier, gave it a quick look-see and he mentions that the plane appears to be in good condition visually... So, it sounds promising - including the fact that it's been hangered for the past few years.. For now, any visual inspections will have to wait until the owner & I can figure out a common time to meet in AT to check out the plane in person.

Excellent to hear another recommendation for the local CT facility, I'll keep that mind for the future..

Question: have you heard of Emersion Air Service in Melbourne, AR (42A)? I've been making phone calls to A&P mechanics based on internet searches, and they stood out... Curious if you've had any interactions with them?

Thanks again for offering to fly down to 2A2! Cheers...

Re: Pre-buy A&P recommendations in Arkansas?
FlyGirl #657122 09/26/23 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyGirl
Question: have you heard of Emersion Air Service in Melbourne, AR (42A)?

Sorry, no.

If I can caution you about anything when buying this 150 (or any plane): Beware of corrosion. A thorough corrosion inspection is vital to confirm the air frame is clean.

These planes are getting long in tooth and Cessna built them with untreated, bare aluminum. They didn't use any corrosion prevention treated aluminum back then like they do today.


Cessna 150/150, N2259M - Mighty Mouse
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